Making Wine Fun Again with Sensory Workshops, featuring Amandine Fournier at Vinesthesia

Isabelle Lesschaeve Author

Explore how sensory-driven wine tasting can bring more joy, cordiality, and creativity to both professionals and wine lovers, with Amandine Fournier.

Making Wine Fun Again with Sensory Workshops, featuring Amandine Fournier at Vinesthesia

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This week, host Isabelle Lesschaeve welcomes Amandine Fournier, founder of Vinesthesia, to explore bold new ways to taste and appreciate wine. 

Amandine, born in the heart of Bordeaux, grew up surrounded by traditional winemaking but always felt there was more to wine than classic rituals and rigid descriptions.

Together, Isabelle and Amandine challenge traditional wine education, highlighting how sensory experiences—like tasting from black glasses and focusing on emotions or memories—can open up deeper, more authentic connections to wine. 

Amandine shares her journey from feeling mocked for her imaginative wine descriptions to empowering others (including veteran professionals!) to “taste differently” and trust their senses.

You will discover: 

• How Vinesthesia’s sensory-driven workshops help people connect to wine on a personal and playful level 
  
• Why there are no “wrong” answers—when tasting wine, your perceptions matter 
  
• The power of mindful tasting and storytelling in building unforgettable wine experiences 
  
• Creative ideas for wine professionals to make tastings more engaging for todays consumers
  

Perfect for enthusiasts and wine businesses alike, this episode is a celebration of trusting your nose, embracing your unique tasting journey, and bringing real fun back into wine.

Links from today’s episode:

• Connect with Amandine:
  Instagram: @ama.vinesthesia
  Web: vinesthesia.com.au 
  
  
• Transform your wine tasting experiences into a customer conversion engine.
  Be one of the first to be invited to become a Founding Member of this new program.
  Join the Priority List Now.

Connect with Isabelle:

• Learn more about working with me on my website

• Connect with me on LinkedIn

• Connect with me on Instagram

• Subscribe to my YouTube channel

• Leave Isabelle a message

TRANSCRIPT

Isabelle Lesschaeve: [00:00:00] Welcome to today's episode of We Taste Wine Differently. I'm your host, Isabelle Lesschaeve, wine sensory scientist, educator and tasting coach. I'm delighted to welcome Amandine Fournier to the show. Ama is the founder of Vinesthesia, and I'm really excited to explore her approach to tasting wine differently.

Isabelle Lesschaeve: But first, let me say a few words about Amma

Isabelle Lesschaeve: Playful, present, and unapologetically French, Ama is far more than a wine expert straight out of Bordeaux. The essence of wine runs through her veins just as she runs through the vineyards As a child. Her humanistic approach Reimagines wine as a portal and each sip as a sensory journey. We met on LinkedIn Isabelle Lesschaeve: I'm really excited to learn more about, your approach Ama You share [00:01:00] your philosophy through interactive workshops, welcoming guests into a world of Vinesthesia. A layering of senses as we reconnect with ourself and the moment glass in hand. So I can't wait to learn more about your world of Vinesthesia.

Isabelle Lesschaeve: And welcome to the show, Ama.

Amandine Fournier: Thank you so much. I'm very excited. Thank you for having me. A pleasure. I'm really, fond about your work, so I want to dig a little bit more. So let's start with the origin of Vinesthesia and how you came up with this concept, this approach, despite growing up into, you know, a very traditional wine regions, Bordeaux.

Amandine Fournier: So I assume you went through maybe some traditional wine education and, I'm really curious about your origin story for Vinesthesia. Look, my origin story definitely started, I would say. Over 20 years ago. So as you say, I coand quickly discovered a shared interest to make wine more approachable through sensory experiences, but we are coming from different horizons.

me from Bordeaux or the countryside. I [00:02:00] come from Saint-Émilion. So very, very important platform in the wine industry.

Amandine Fournier: Both of my grandfather used to make wine when I was a kid, so I was right away immersed. In this environment. when I was a kid, like as soon as I could crawl, I was with my family in the vineyard. So I was really immersed with this community and everyone, like, everyone loved being there. That connection that we had.

Amandine Fournier: Play that we invite into the vineyard as well, as well as the seriousness when we are making wine and the process of like waiting and being patient. my first pay job was at 12 years old during school holiday. I was working at the winery, so I was really immersed that, but even, having the best time with my family and friends in the wineries, that's not where I fell in love.

Amandine Fournier: During my education, years, I was trying to wonder what I wanted to do in my life [00:03:00] and I couldn't find any answer. So I went into a thing where I tried different industry just to see what fits the best to me. And one of them was in hospitality. So I worked in a restaurant, but I found myself very quickly attracted by.

Amandine Fournier: Everything that is bar the alchemy, playing with all the mixology and everything. And I was like, this is it. This is what I wanna do. And one day during, wine, it was an, and, the restaurant where I was working at hostage, wine tasting. So I was the new addition of the team and the youngest one.

Amandine Fournier: Which, at the time was, I was really wondering what on earth I was doing that because I clearly found zero inspiration in the mix of saliva and, and wine. But, I, it's that moment where [00:04:00] things just went like aha to me. while I was wondering and picking up the wine from all the spittoon, the wine experts was on the other side of the room.

Amandine Fournier: Pick up a black wine glass shooting out the audience. Can you tell me the color of the wine without saying it? And all the attention at this moment? Everything went all silence. And even me, I was like, what do you mean? And this is where it all started, where I was. I want to know more about it, like

Amandine Fournier: Clearly there is something more than what I've heard or what I've experienced, so I want to know more about it. And that was my first like step into, okay, I want to know more about wine. I'm going to dive into this question. Let's go. All right. So that was really the pivotal moment.

Amandine Fournier: you know this Yeah. Black glasses and Yeah. As a sensory scientist, we use black glasses all the time. And when you present to. [00:05:00] Wine experts, usually they're very uncomfortable because they, you know, they learn to see the wine first. You know, that's the basic of wine quality judging is, appearance first.

Amandine Fournier: So I'm curious how, you know, just this black glasses, you know, the question, the key question. Can you guess the color of the wine just by smelling and tasting, I assume. so what was the next step? You know, this. Pivotal moment is just like incredible. Well, I was very lucky actually, the wine expert on that day was actually a professor.

Amandine Fournier: So I went to have a chat with him and he is like, look, I actually like teach at a school in Bordeaux. I'm going to give you my card. Let's catch up for a coffee and see and take you through the process. So I had to go and, uh, do an interview with the school and I went through a selection. because there were limited seats available at the school.

Amandine Fournier: And I think, I got it like I think for my [00:06:00] enthusiasm, I got the place and the rest, yeah, I've been studying. I went through a course of three years studying, going all over France as well, traveling as well as I was studying and working at the same time. So I got a better understanding of the vineyard all over France and better understanding of what I wanna do and why wine was, so important to me at the time.

Amandine Fournier: Now. Yeah. Well, you know, such a dream, career path for so many wine scholar, to travel across France, so. Absolutely. So you learn all about wine. You discover, the making of it, the importance of the vineyards, but then it, how did you make the leap to the senses, you know, and the importance of the senses in our appreciation of wine.

Amandine Fournier: I think that was definitely right away from, what I was studying. So for sure I had this moment where I had to use my mind, but there were something in [00:07:00] me when I was tasting the wine, like the wine was taking me to some places. I was remembering like old memories that were connected to some smell or sometimes like I had.

Amandine Fournier: A vision, like I just close my eyes, connect with the wine, and be focused on the present moment. And sometimes some vision were appearing. Sometimes I had a flash from a movie coming up or maybe a painting or just a scenery that I was imagining in my head. And from this I was like, oh, like I actually quite like the way wine come to me and all those image come up.

Amandine Fournier: And so at some points. I was like, oh yeah, just do it. Just share your vision. Just share what you see, which I've done. And I've done it in front of my peers and some other students in the classroom. And the way I was describing the wine, they all laugh at me. And on this I was like, [00:08:00] alright, so I guess this is not the time and the place to speak openly about what I feel.

Amandine Fournier: It's a more. Rigid way that you need to focus like what the textbook are saying and you need to describe in a way that the textbook are saying, and there is maybe no more room for anything else. And on this I got like. A bit shut down. I was like, alright, I'm gonna keep that for myself for now and just focus on that plastic, like textbook frame, which I have done for a certain time, like for most of my career actually.

Amandine Fournier: until I would say two, three years ago, I had a kind of sparkles in my stomach where I felt like I was too comfortable into my environment. So I quit my job. And, I worked well. I quit my job. I jump into another role of sommelier. So it is not like I went into something completely different, but the environment [00:09:00] itself, I just changed, the people I was working with and step by step I was like, okay, I'm not going to go full-time.

Amandine Fournier: I'm going to go part-time so I have more time to understand and find out what it means and what I can contribute within this industry. Because at the end of the day, just replicating the same thing all over again. Clearly it's not me, and I'm feeding step by step. So I need to connect really to that essence of wine, the thing that sparkle the joy and the magic in me, and connect with that and share it to the world.

Amandine Fournier: Wow. That's. That's a great mission and a wonderful statement, you know, to sparkle the joy in yourself and share with others. I love it. So, we continue your journey. So now you have a mission on this planet to make wine more approachable, to share a different way of tasting wine.

Amandine Fournier: So what are you doing that is it how of Vinesthesia? came to birth. exactly Vinesthesia Came to [00:10:00] birth. So when you look at the word Vinesthesia, so vine wine in English, and I took the other part of synesthesia. So when you, experience one sense. Through another. So I combine all together. So when we do wine tasting, we actually get the chance to, for example, taste, but through the test, we don't just.

Amandine Fournier: Test what we have in our mouth. On the back of a pallette, we have the retro olfaction, and so it's connecting to the sense of smell as well. When we test and talk about texture and tanning, we talking about silky feeling or a more fine grain, and that will be also connecting with our sense of touch and what we feel from the fingertip.

Amandine Fournier: So I actually just like connected the dots together. And things that I was like, oh, like we have this intellectual approach about wine. And some people would be romantic [00:11:00] as well. I'm very romantic when I speak about wine, but how about that human approach, something that people can resonate with, and this is where I just got the chance to like.

Amandine Fournier: Set in and I was like, I'm gonna show the world wine from something that they don't need to train for. I mean, you can obviously train for, but something they're born with. They're born with those assets. They've been, they have the past, they have their own story and somehow we, without realizing it, they've been just like registering some data with everyday life that they could, can go back to and connect with the world and describe the wine with it.

Amandine Fournier: Yeah, it's very profound what you said. 'cause I realized that in my work as well, people don't realize the assets that they have, the capability. The capacity. I always, struggle with those two words, but their skills, they have the skills, they just absolutely don't use them.

Amandine Fournier: So, it's wonderful to see people discovering that. [00:12:00] Yes. When I taste, I smell. And, that's the big haha moment, usually for people when they discover retro nasal olfaction. Mm-hmm. But, I'm going maybe too much into the practices and, and the technicalities. So maybe, you know, you have this vision, this mission, you have hosted, several workshops, since to, share your approach.

Amandine Fournier: So when. People register, you know, what do you promise to them? how do they come interested in the approach? Because, or do they come like, we're going to do a wine tasting and meet a winemaker. what is really the dynamic and, how do they connect with you?

Amandine Fournier: So first, I think when they come in. They I think they definitely have this expectation of coming to a wine tasting. And so that is one thing that I cut right away. When people sit down and we start the session, I ask them who have ever been to a [00:13:00] wine tasting before? Most of the people have been lifting their hands up.

Amandine Fournier: So I'm like, great, this is amazing. Now I want. Experiencing and forget about everything because what I'm going to take you through today is nothing like you've been experiencing before. On this, I'm going to cut out every jargon. The pretense and I'm going to make it more fun and so everyone can relax because guess what?

Amandine Fournier: There is no wrong answer whatsoever. Everything is very much like true to you. Of course, if you have a Shiraz in front of you and you thinking it's a Viognier, I'm going to like readjust certain facts. But for everything that you feel like if, for you, you are smelling a strawberry, who I am to tell you no is not right.

Amandine Fournier: Yeah, I can guide you through, I can share my point of view, but I'm not [00:14:00] based on you understanding of what they smell like and taste like. Yeah. Yeah. So except if I have a strawberry in front of me and I can share that to you and be, and you the one be like, nice, definitely smell like a strawberry. Oh no, actually a said strawberry was smelling different or testing different and then you readjust that thing.

Amandine Fournier: Otherwise, like you, it's all based on a personal understanding. Yeah. You know, I'm very fascinated by the fact that you discovered. Basically how to conduct a sensory tasting, by yourself and, through your own experience and the way that you lead the workshops. you just made, a comment about bringing what we called, physical standard, you know, read strawberry to align the description, you know, to make sure that the person, when they said strawberry, that's what they meant.

Amandine Fournier: So I'm really, fascinated and impressed by your past to realize that. So just, you know, note, you [00:15:00] don't need to have a PhD in sensory science to conduct sensory tasting. That's really what it is. So, in terms of the activities, you, studied. To talk about the beginning of the workshop.

Amandine Fournier: so how do you conduct the tasting? you said, well, you know, if they said Shiraz and it's a Viognier, you know, is it a blind tasting? Do they have to guess the, varietal wines, or how do you lead them through the discovery of the wines? So the discovery of the wine doesn't go necessarily through the tech technicality.

Amandine Fournier: Okay. I'm not here to necessarily speak about the winemaking process because there are things that people cannot relate to. Mm. Um, it's purely a sensory approach and how to show, I'm showing people how much the trust the senses, how much the senses tell the truth, and how to see things from being different perspective.

Amandine Fournier: So, for example, my very first thing, so I just tell them my [00:16:00] origin journey and my origin, origin story and I come up with a black glass and I ask them, can you please tell me the color of a wine without saying it? So straightaway, obviously it's one thing like we take our senses for granted. And so we, when we have this where we have a black wine glass, we are like, okay, so where is the answer?

Amandine Fournier: How can I find the answer? And I see people smelling and I see the eyes wandering around, and I saw them right away. I'm like, what I'm inviting you to do right now is to close your eyes as well. Clearly you can't see the answer. So you need to find another way to get to the answer. If you keep your eyes open, you are looking for the answer around you, but this is just visual noise and it disconnects you to what you have in front of you, which is the answer.

Amandine Fournier: So on this, I give them the tools or the directive to get a better understanding [00:17:00] of what like the color could be and how they can guess that color. So from this, we go from the sense of smell. And then we go through the sense of taste and I invite them to close their eyes and be like, so first of all, is there something in particular that come up to you?

Amandine Fournier: Maybe it's a color, maybe you see green. So green will be closely connecting to a white, wine. For the color perspective, maybe you see strawberries, so you're like, oh, strawberry, red. So like just very basic and simple things. Mm-hmm. Because it's red. Maybe the wine could be red. Maybe you have that like smoky flavor or spices that come up.

Amandine Fournier: So maybe it's more related to a strength of a red wine. When you test the wine, maybe you have something. That feel richer with a bit of tanning. So you're like, oh yeah, that's definitely the red wine. So I took them through [00:18:00] these things and what I really love at the moment, is showcasing Pinot gris.

Amandine Fournier: Because Pinot gris is a great variety that. Everyone, is like Pinot gris, Pinot gris, so, you know, just like chip and cheerful type of wine. But when you really connect to the history of it and all the variation that is attached to the Pinot gris. Like for example, like I showcase Hato style, which is a Pinot style made in the Northeast where the winemaker.

Amandine Fournier: Themselves to the French, been using the skin of a Pinot Gris, which is such a beautiful variation of colors. Going from the yellow to the orange, to the green, to the pink, to the purple, and having this living contact with the, attracting the extracting colors and more aroma and texture. And from that, like I have taste some Pinot that tastes like Pinot Noir Yeah. [00:19:00] And when I show at some point, like I go and I do a reveal. So I pour from the black glass and I pour into a clear glass, and I ask them again, now you can see the color of wine. Can you tell me with the color of the wine? And so they go through and I'm like, okay, now I can see. So clearly it's a Rosé, but no.

Amandine Fournier: On a pinot, it's a white wine. It's not because you look like a rose and it's just showcasing to people. Like things are not necessarily what this seems to be. Yeah, I think it's a beautiful approach Also to, for the people who want to learn about, the wine making, the differences, et cetera, it's a wonderful way to, that's it, to learn through the discovery rather than learning.

Amandine Fournier: That's it. Everything in the textbook. And then, trying to recognize the wine in a blind tasting. So, that's it. Yeah. Kudos to do. that's excellent. Yeah. I definitely give them [00:20:00] some indication and some better understanding in wine. Without teaching them anything. Like per se, I'm not here with my textbook and be like, so this is what you need to remember, what you need to learn.

Amandine Fournier: No, I'm just showcasing what are the possibilities that are on the market and seeing like rather than going towards something that is very classic. Maybe I need to step out of my comfort zone and try something a bit different. And maybe it would be to agree with skin contact and actually that would be phenomenal.

Amandine Fournier: Yeah. So yeah. Showcasing all the possibility rather than what we know. Yeah. Yeah. So you said, when people come to the workshop, many of them think it's a traditional wine tasting. two questions, you know. did they share with you any aha moments, any discovery moments that, really was really worth it to come to the workshop?

Amandine Fournier: Or did you have also any resistance, from some participants and, yeah, just curious [00:21:00] so far, I haven't got any resistance and I've been making a point of having wine professional coming to my tasting as well. Which was a big, big challenge for me because I was like, oh, I've been mocked in the past.

Amandine Fournier: And you know, like a lot of people are just rigid and they're happy with the format that has been given with the educational system. But not everyone works that way. And so I was definitely scared to be criticized and be mocked, showcasing my tasting. But actually I have had some beautiful testimony where, I've had a colleague of mine who had been working in a wine industry for more than 30 years, and I invited him to my tasting and he said to me, he is like, thank you.

Amandine Fournier: Like you made me fall in love with wine again. And I was just like, you know, I kind of lost my way into, into the industry, just keep on doing, doing the same old, same old and [00:22:00] mm-hmm. Without find, finding any kind of novelty or refreshing reminder that wine means something, something else. I've had, on my last two tastings, I have had, a younger woman came me, to the tasting and that was a very first wine tasting.

Amandine Fournier: Wow. Okay. So for me, I was like, alright, so obviously it's very hard because she can't compare. she never had any experience of wine tasting before. What she came up, she's like, you show me something that I was hoping to get, like really a connection. Something where I don't have to be educated.

Amandine Fournier: In order to know that I can actually appreciate wine and I can have a better understanding or a better immersion through it without coming with a back of knowledge.and because my approach is fun is based on storytelling, so a lot of people share [00:23:00] their own story and the way they feel as well.

Amandine Fournier: And it's very a lot of like immersion and moment where we get to connect all together, which is. What the essence of wine means to me, like is really getting the chance to travel through time and space, connecting with all memories, connecting with new memories that we just like creating on the moment with people that are around us and connecting with people.

Amandine Fournier: Yeah. and wine is the perfect, you know, vehicle for that, for social interactions. You know, it's been, for millennials, around us and, connecting people and fostering, connections. but what you described remind me of an article I just read. it was a BBC feature about, the Paris Opera, opera, garnier, and, you know, opera is.

Amandine Fournier: Also something, a part of the culture that, seems intimidating for people, uh, very, like you need to be educated. And, the director was interviewed and he said, [00:24:00] well, this is not what we want. We want. People to come and feel and have emotions and really it's not about, looking at, the booklet before and understanding the story.

Amandine Fournier: If you feel the story, you don't need to know the story in advance. And I said, well, that's reminds me a lot about wine you really need to feel that connection and. We had a conversation to prepare this podcast, Ama, and I think you said something to the essence that you encourage participants to really see what is the message of the winemaker in the bottle.

Amandine Fournier: And I'm just wondering, how do you do that? How do people find the message or how do they interpret, this request? Well, first of all. You can't, I don't think you'd be able to connect with the message in the bottle in every single bottle. Yeah. It just depends emotionally, if you connect with the wine and if the wine make you feel a certain way, that's where you get the connect to connect with the message in a bottle.[00:25:00]

Amandine Fournier: Obviously, when I look at a wine maker, for me, a wine maker is a storyteller, is an author. Rather than using a pen and a paper to write a story, it will use. The great biases and what the year has been providing. He has a vision. He knows what the plot is going to produce in a, with misunderstanding, and therefore with the year that has been happening, trying to harvest the best quality fruit and write a story through that.

Amandine Fournier: So he has his own message to give to the people. At the same time, like you have your own message. So when you connect with a certain smell or a certain, taste or, or, texture, because this will probably make you think of something else, like a memory that has been lost in, in time. This memory, old emotion.

Amandine Fournier: Which old? Maybe a message for you to reconnect with this [00:26:00] time and make you feel something and like, you know, you're bringing a memory back to life with a glass of wine. I mean, to me, the magic portion and this message where means for you at that time? Yeah. Yeah. And this is what is quite important for me, and I think, you know, the approach or the journey you take people, through is really about discovering, the importance of being mindful when you smell and taste a glass of wine.

Amandine Fournier: Because otherwise you miss all those messages. That's very great. You know, if somebody is talking about, the great story of the wine making and, and the wineries and, And then you listen to the people you don't pay attention to the wine. But really to feel that connection and to really be in tune with your senses and experience, you need silence.

Amandine Fournier: You need to close your eyes and yeah, you write on It's wonderful. Yeah. Connecting with yourself look is the same thing when you pick a book or when you listen to music or [00:27:00] you watch a movie, you will have something at some point a sentence. Amazing. Like you feel something where it is like a call of action.

Amandine Fournier: Yeah. Yeah. And one give you exactly the same thing. And this is you message at the time for like, it's special for you. And that message was in the bottle. It doesn't mean that you will again, like find that in every single bottle. I don't, it is not often. That I get, like, especially working in the restaurant, I open bottles like dozen and dozen and dozen of bottle of wine every day.

Amandine Fournier: So for me, when I get, like, it's always the same thing. I open the bottle, I pour a test in my glass, I close my eyes for a second. And I see clearly, like when a smile come up to my face, I'm like, Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. And we talk a lot about, emotions and, you know, emotions drive [00:28:00] people behavior.

Amandine Fournier: and definitely the aromatics of the wines are, you know. Connected to, the deep center of emotion. So the more people can remember, you know, generate memories or the fact that they create these new memories with you will certainly, you know, they will remember that experience for, for a long time.

Amandine Fournier: And if you are representing a winery, definitely they will remember the wines and the brand. So, this emotional connection is so, so important. So you went through, hospitality training and your peers were not very, open to tasting wine differently. So now with this experience that you have under your belt, how do you see this traditional.

Amandine Fournier: Training, for wine, hospitality professional and your approach, which is more geared towards, consumers being more, focused on the sensory experience of the [00:29:00] consumers. Is there a place for these two approach to, at some point, you know, not merge, but find, some, commonalities and, yeah.

Amandine Fournier: I'm just curious about your point of view on that.

Amandine Fournier: So, for me, one can be dissociated to the other is very important wine. Like you have the educational system, which is the mind, and then you have the sensory approach, which is the body. I don't want to get one from the other.

Amandine Fournier: And I think both of them should be merging. Both of them have one common interest, wine. Yeah, but the importance is that you can't just focus on the mind and ask the mind to understand everything that the body feel without, like you can't, like it is. [00:30:00] Both of them has to work together. For me, when I went through the scholarship, I got to learn about his story.

Amandine Fournier: I learned to learn, I got to learn about is, geography. I got to learn about everything that is cultural, with music, with food, where it's being made and why it's being made that way. Like there were so much things that I got the chance to learn that with my textbook. I also got the chance to travel.

Amandine Fournier: Mm-hmm. Sitting on my chair comfortably home. So this is quite important and it will give you so much information that provide understanding that like the body will give you signal, but if you don't have that understanding through the mind and through all the technicality, maybe you may miss some point.

Amandine Fournier: It's not necessary to have all the educational system. You can enjoy wine as it is. You don't need to have a degree [00:31:00] for it. If you want to dive further into this element, go ahead. It could be very confusing and it can be very mind opening. It has both, but I, I don't think I want to dissociate one from another.

Amandine Fournier: I think the scholar system need to have a more like holistic, a more human approach. Rather than being intellectual. Mm-hmm. All the time because we are missing the point. Like I have that thing sometime. I really don't like speaking with sommelier because they just speak about the wine they've been selling, the wine they've been drinking the and Old lady life is wine where I'm like, hang on a second.

Amandine Fournier: There is so much more. And like you can connect wine with opera and music like the way the emotion come through you when you listen to some music. Wine will [00:32:00] provide you the same thing, but it is not in the textbook that you will learn that it's by experiencing it yourself on the moment. Yeah. I always say to my clients, I mean, I think the wine education, start

Amandine Fournier: On the wrong side of the equation, we should start by, helping people discover wine through their senses. And then if, as you just said, if they want to get more education to understand, you know, the strawberry note, where does it come from? Is it the varietal or is it the wine making? then, they can go further and then travel to the textbook or if they're lucky to travel to the wine regions.

Amandine Fournier: I totally agree. Yeah. So you have conducted these workshops for, several years right now. Uh, uh, right now it's been about a year and a half. A year and a half. And do you envision, like a next step, how do you see anesthesia growing and developing and maybe exploring other, dimensions?

Amandine Fournier: Yeah, absolutely. So, first of all, I wanna take [00:33:00] wine outside of. The things that we know, I want to take it outside of the winery, outside of the restaurants, outside of the wine bar or cellar. I wanna take it to some places like art gallery. Wine for me is art. And so sometimes when we wander around the art gallery, some piece of art will just connect and align with the wine.

Amandine Fournier: And so I want to take that to like a fashion show. Because when you get to experience the different textile, you will understand that you can match the feeling from the feeling from your fingertip to the wine and the texture and the mouth feeling of a wine. So all of those things are like, you can push boundaries.

Amandine Fournier: So for me, I definitely want to take its places. I want to go back to Bordeaux and showcase that to Bordeaux, to that very like. Classic [00:34:00] structure, rigid type of, places where they, like I went back last year, to Saint-Émilion and they were like, oh, we are bringing novelty to the wine tasting. And I'm like, oh, that's very curious.

Amandine Fournier: Please. I want to see, I want to experience that. And actually, they were doing exactly the same thing as they were doing 20 years ago. I, I started in my career. So I'm like, there is no novelty. You're just using a world to just make it feel novel. But no. And and on this, I think like, yeah, we need to, to push, like we need to connect with creativity.

Amandine Fournier: Creativity is quite important. I'd like to bring my tasting to some retreats, mindfulness retreat as well, and wellness retreats to showcase that. Sure. I understand wine is alcohol. But when you appreciate it and you mindful of the way you're consuming, you can create like so much beautiful moment, or you can be [00:35:00] inspired by the drink itself.

Amandine Fournier: And you don't have to go to the point that you're tipsy or wasted. No. Like you can just appreciate a simple glass or two and don't go down the road of like just having this habit of getting another one, getting another one, getting another one, and then you're like, oh, I went too far. Yeah. Um, I want to like bring the Vinesthesia to people house.

Amandine Fournier: Without me being there. So maybe I was like envisioning doing some collaboration with some wineries and bring like some, like board games and things like this where people get to have fun with d friends and they just need to buy another bottle of wine to experience again, the same thing and just play again.

Amandine Fournier: They have all the tools necessary for it and mm-hmm. And there's things that they're accessible straight away from your kitchen. Exactly like I play with some herbs or like de hydrated fruit or things like that. And this is everyday like ingredients that we have [00:36:00] accessible. It is not like I'm creating something that is completely out there.

Amandine Fournier: I just like get inspired by what I had in front of me. Yeah. Yeah. Again, great sensory practice, using what you have in your kitchen to train your nose. And, like my mentor at Nobel says, listen to your nose every day. The best way to develop, your ability to reen, enjoy wine because you can pick point, you know what you perceive and it makes you feel a different, sensation.

Amandine Fournier: So that's great. So. I don't know how much time we've been talking, but it's been a great conversation. Thank you. Now I'm 42 minutes. No, thank you. It's been awesome. I'm so, so happy. I really enjoy connecting and speaking more about wine. Yeah. Well, I just want to mention, you know, an experiment I went through.

Amandine Fournier: I was at, a call Uman, last month, and one of the professor, professor Losis, uh. It took us through an interesting experiment that, makes me think [00:37:00] about it because you talk about art gallery. So he showed us, some paintings, you know, projecting on the wall and, asking us about the question about the painting, if we had seen it before, if we liked it, to describe it.

Amandine Fournier: And then he presented, a glass of wine in black glass. So we didn't see the color and we just had to, taste the wine and say how much we liked it and, describe it if we want it. Unknown to us and biggest sensory scientists I've been called, they were like replicated wines that were presented with different paintings and it was amazing once they unveiled everything to realize that the same wine presented with different paintings.

Amandine Fournier: You know, one that was very colorful and cheerful and one who was kind of dark and sad. Makes you enjoy the wine differently. So I definitely, I love this concept and, just, you know, for people to realize how the context, affect our perceptions. And if you really want to learn about wine, focusing on the wine, just, being mindful and closing your [00:38:00] eyes is important and then you can play.

Amandine Fournier: That's really, just wanted to share that because it might give you more ideas on how to, use art, in your workshops. No, it is definitely, so like It's perfect. That's one thing. It's very important to me. Like also what that professor did is creating novelty.

Amandine Fournier: Yeah. Looking at wine from a different perspective. You looking first at the peace of art, what it make you feel, what kind of emotion does it make you connect with? Yeah. And then you, like you setting a tone right away on your emotional level. And so the wine, I mean, you go on the body constitution, we are 80% based on water.

Amandine Fournier: Mm-hmm. Wine, 80% based off water as well. Yeah. So when we look at these elements and our energy and the vibration that goes and connect between the two, like we are going to make the wine if we have the [00:39:00] worst day ever and we angry and we frustrated, the wine will be bitter and sour. If we had the best news, we are like in love and joyful.

Amandine Fournier: The wine will showcase as it is exactly like it will offer you everything on the silver tray. Yeah. Yeah. And this is just connecting with you emotional, like feelings. Like it's something that is, yeah, I'm like, I want to know more about it. I want to go and dive into this rabbit hole by the time, because I'm like, if you get to set the emotions of people on high, you can just go higher from there.

Amandine Fournier: Yes, yes. And especially, you know, these times, the mood in the wine industry globally is not very high. consumption is down. We are blaming the new generations for not enjoying as much wine as, their parents or grandparents. You know, that might not be, the issue. Mm-hmm.

Amandine Fournier: But, your approach to wine tasting [00:40:00] might definitely, Appeal to, people wanted to do things differently and you know, we're talking about mindfulness and, art gallery and it's all about creating those experiences. So maybe, you know, one of my last question would be, for the people who are listening to us right now who wants to try something a bit different in their tasting rooms or at their tasting events, what would be one.

Amandine Fournier: Action step, or practical step that you could suggest so that they could, help their guests get closer to maybe a Vinesthesia experiment or Yeah, experiments. I will say, first of all, be you. Be human like connect to this scent. instead of offering a charcuterie board and a cheese board, which clearly doesn't reflect any senses into the wine, maybe you should have different fruits and different herbs where those things are right now, how [00:41:00] the wine taste like, like they constrict the wine.

Amandine Fournier: Make them feel wine and make them like, go through like this kind of journey where they be like, okay, now I get to understand. I get to see it and I connect the dot together. Get to re-empower people. Don't be like, here is the wine. So what do you think? What do you test? Do you like it like this? Even for me being in wine industry for more than 20 years, sometimes I'm like.

Amandine Fournier: Well, yeah, I can tell you what I feel about it, but like me compared to the rest of like, does it mean something? Mm-hmm. And also they are like trying to connect that with that novelty. I had a, customer who, recently said to me, oh, I went on to Adelaide trip and I went to do some wine tasting and I went to this winery and they made us do a wine tasting in the bus.

Amandine Fournier: In the middle of the [00:42:00] vineyard, and I was so cool. I had the best experience and I bought some wine and I went back home and I taste the wine and well, it was not that good actually. And I'm like, why? Because first of all, the winery created novelty, something you didn't expect. You've never been having wine tasting through this kind of format.

Amandine Fournier: But it is also in people hands to create that novelty. To understand what wine is and what it make you feel, and how you can replicate that for yourself. Rather than just sitting in front of a TV with a glass of wine, expecting to feel joy and the best thing in the world, like, you have to also recreate this element for you to really like connect with the wine and be like, oh, wow, that's the best thing that I ever taste ever.

Amandine Fournier: Why? Why? Why is it the best thing you taste ever? Why it make you feel that way? It come from you at the first place as well, you know? [00:43:00] It's really about listening to customers. And as a researcher I always say, listen to the customers. Don't talk much that much. You know, listen. 'cause you can learn so much about, the language that people are, utilizing, you know, their memories are personal.

Amandine Fournier: Of course, you might not be able to use that for communication, but the way they describe why in those words, you know. It'll give you, an idea on how to create new, experiences and, how to connect with them. and as consumers, we connect with, messages that resonate with us.

Amandine Fournier: You know, if they clearly have, they use the words that, resonate with us, we will certainly pay more attention to, that website or that newsletter that we receive in our, in our inbox. Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned Adelaide Hills, so you're not, you know, in the side of this, planet with me.

Amandine Fournier: so I would love to come to one of your workshops, but. It might not be for some time, but where can people, find you Ama? if, um, they want to connect with you? [00:44:00] Well, they can find me on my social media with ama.vinesthesia or directly through my website, vinesthesia.com.au. and reach out, come to me, drop me a message, connect, and like, come out with a question.

Amandine Fournier: I'm more than happy to connect with people to chat about wine. And sit down with a glass of wine, why not? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well this is what is missing right now. But, thank you so much. thank you so much to thank, have shared, your journey and your passion for wine and for people and for human connections.

Amandine Fournier: I really enjoy our conversations and it was really a pleasure to have you on the show. Ama thank you very much. It was indeed a great pleasure and I really looking forward for the nexttime. Cheers. Cheers.

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